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Three-time Olympic champion in figure skating Irina Rodnina became another guest of the show «In two words», in which she spoke about enemies from the United States and those guilty of Russian doping, the appearance of Dziuba in the State Duma and figure skaters Tutberidze, Trusova's rudeness and the scandal around Valieva, » sponsor from Putin» for the FFKKR and a tweet with Obama and a banana.
— Does the State Duma understand sports?
— There are many athletes there. Great athletes.- And we hear mostly non-athletes. Why, for example, San Sanych Karelin, when you ask him questions, answers: «I don't want there to be many of me.»
— It's just that you mostly observe the plenary sessions. And all the big things we have are decided in committees behind closed doors, unfortunately. Perhaps we will live to see the time when we will show them. And at plenary sessions, we sometimes have questions that were not raised at all in the committees. This is such, you know, window dressing and work for the public.
— It's more about public space. about asking? You are wondering about football, about the fan ID, whether to sell beer in stadiums or not. If we are invited somewhere, it is only for this, nothing else interests us.
—Nevertheless, even in such matters we most often hear Teryushkov, Khamzaev. That is, not athletes.
— Probably because we (athletes) know sports journalism better than other deputies. Therefore, it is better for us to remain silent.
— But you are not silent anymore.
— Yes, I never remain silent if I have my own opinion. And if you ask him. Many great athletes will not be imposed, we are terrible individualists. And to talk about sports… Well, after us, only the weather.
Who is the lack of athletes in the Duma now?
We have enough athletes. Fetisov and Valuev, for example, are in the committee on ecology, Zhurova and I are in the committee on international relations, Karpov, if I remember correctly, in the committee on nationalities. Sport, after all, it concerns everything, it is one of the most powerful aspects of the social life of any person.
— And what does an athlete need to know and be able to do before getting into the Duma?
— First of all, to know your business. Because I have a feeling that now some people who work in the field of sports management and organization do not really remember or know what happened in Soviet times. And even less — what is in the international sports movement. We have somewhat different systems, tasks, funding. Here, of course, you need to know both. And, of course, to know where to go next.
— And yet — do you see which of the young athletes could replace you? wondered about this idea. This is not my story. Any ministry is interested in having its own people who could bring new ideas. Probably, this is the task of the Ministry of Sports. Because such a large group of athletes got into the Duma thanks to Fetisov, when we still had a sports agency.
We had a Ministry of Sports in 2010, and a separate budget for sports in 2012. So we then fell into such a hole. At first, the sports budget was in the medical system, then in education. And it became separate only two years before the Olympic Games in Sochi.
— Does an athlete have to be popular to get into the Duma?
— It was used for a while. Basically, all of our athletes are United Russia, and, with a few exceptions, we are all single-members. Being elected by a list or by a single-member constituency are completely different things, so recognition here, of course, matters. They understand perfectly well that you can’t buy anything in sports. In sports, you have to do yourself. Therefore, there is a certain trust in people who have achieved success through their work and ambition. jpg» />
— In this case, can Artem Dzyuba be a deputy?
— After all his exercises, he is really already a planetary scale.
He is popular, he is an open patriot. And he likes women.
— Why are you asking me this question? —You are a deputy of the State Duma.
—But this does not mean that I should bring someone there by train. First of all, what matters is whether he wants to or not. Did you ask him such a question? Or is he not up to it yet?
— Well, he hasn't finished his career yet.
— And not just a career, yes.
«Fetisov said:» Stop fooling around, come «
— There is a feeling that we have a rather small percentage of athletes who independently decide to go into lawmaking. Basically everyone is invited.
<
“To be honest with you, no one called me. I myself decided, and here Fetisov and I were in a single bundle. Because in the State Duma I am the only one who worked in the Central Committee of the Komsomol. Just in the department of sports and defense-mass work. That is, I quite know how it all was arranged in our country. After all, we cannot close this door and it is not known where to go.
We had a certain system, structure. It is possible that it was the work there that inspired me to the future. In addition, I worked as a coach and as an athlete in the USSR, so for me it was also a well-known story.
— That is, you arrived with Fetisov, sat down…< br>
No, Fetisov arrived earlier. Then he called me and said: «Stop playing the fool, come.»
It was the year 1987 or 1988, when some moments were already brewing. If you remember, after 1988, Fetisov was either allowed to sign a contract, then later they remembered that he was an officer, and they banned him. This was before our departure (to the USA). I left in 1990, Slava — half a year before.
But the main thing was not just the desire to leave, but the fact that we were not satisfied with the work of our federations, which at that time were just an appendage to the USSR State Sports Committee, did not suit our attitude. I was no longer an active athlete at that time.
— Probably, you then actually realized that you should not condemn people who leave the country?
<
— You know, I don't really understand what «condemn» means.
— This is to talking about your colleagues.
— Maybe due to this, colleagues can become famous. After all, next time he may not be invited to the program.
— They don’t understand what real sport is.
— In at best, they know what the TRP complex is.
— And the word «traitor».
— Because these people have never defended the honor of the country in sports. We didn’t stand on the podium and don’t know what it’s like when, thanks to your performance, not only the flag and the anthem are raised – the stadiums are raised. In our country, for example, no flag was raised at the World and European Championships and the anthem was not played until 1973. And there was no screaming or yelling. The flag, not the flag — the main thing is that our performance made us believe in the power of sport. strong>— You say that certain expressions about figure skating make you angry. For example?
— Firstly, I am completely infuriated by this excited, salivating delight from our athletes. Well, you're a commentator, be objective! It especially amuses me when they start: “Here, he has 98 points, which means that he needs to score a total of 115 now, but for this you need to do at least all the elements of the third and fourth levels. But here he did not reach the third level , and the track is generally the second. «
— So. What's the problem?
— And what is the «level» in general does the viewer know? Explain what it is, how lifts are considered, why there is more for this lift and less for another lift, what is the problem in jumping. After all, it is necessary not to choke the viewer, but …
— To educate?
— Of course! >— In this context, I agree with you — I don’t like it when all jumps are called «most difficult». That is, «the most difficult triple lutz» and at the same time «the most difficult quadruple lutz». Both are the most difficult to exit.
— Well, if we are talking about lutz, then they are really the most difficult. But I still really «like» when they say: «This is an ultra-si element.» Where did this even come from?!
— From artistic gymnastics.
— That's right! Because in gymnastics all the elements were divided into difficulty groups A, B and C. And the elements that went beyond them were already ultra-si. But what does figure skating have to do with it? We do not have such a breakdown.
< br>
— So after all, the coaches and skaters themselves say «ultra-c».
— Well, they listen to you! And most coaches, especially those who work at the initial stage, do not distinguish a hook from a hook.
—Now all coaches know this, because the assessment is made up of these elements.
— Someone knows, but someone does not. We hold seminars, slip tests have become mandatory. And I realized what a problem. These are not coaches of the highest category, not the level of the national team, but they are preparing the basis.
At the same time, comparing the figure skating of my time and modern skating is complete nonsense. Changed the rules more than once, the requirements. Therefore, when someone begins to compare what was in our time and now, it is impossible, completely different sports. Figure skating is moving forward, and we must understand this. But we still have a special kind of sport, we have two ratings. And for some reason, very often we begin to evaluate technical moments through the prism of artistry.
— In what way?
— Well, he jumped — he didn’t jump. At the same time, I really like it when they talk about one of our athletes, they say, she had five quadruple jumps. Well, after all, she completed only 2.5!
— How cryptically you say, give us a minute to think about it, to understand who it is.< br>
— Here you need to understand one thing — if we turn again to the same gymnastics, then there you were added points for trying more complex elements, even if you made a mistake. And here, if you make a mistake on a difficult jump, you, on the contrary, are taken away even more.
Therefore, it is ridiculous to talk about trying five or four jumps. You can only talk about the performed jumps.
— Not quite so. When Sasha Trusova enters a complex element and doesn't even go to it, it's still more interesting to watch than pure triples.
— They don't give a gold medal for «almost» That's all.
—Here in Beijing, the girl who fought and did everything got the gold.
— We have many such examples. I remember the Olympic Games — 1994. Everyone fought, everyone was the leader, and Lesha Urmanov won. Quietly, between Boitano, Petrenko and everyone else, he made his way and became the champion.
Shcherbakova skated in Beijing — stable physically and mentally. could withstand the pressure that fell on Kamila Valieva? And she is also a strong-willed girl.
“She is a strong-willed girl. I felt very sorry for her, because of all the girls of this generation, in my opinion, she was the most gifted. She has very good inclinations — both figure and appearance. That's why I liked Medvedev — she's bright. And Valieva is also the same, everything is with her.
— There is a feeling that Medvedev is more about work than about talent. And Valieva is the opposite.
— You know, I'm afraid of the word «talent». How afraid and when they begin to say «Masterpiece!» and all that.
— Doesn't the word «genius» irritate you?
— Oh, even more. I can only talk about abilities. And you really need to have relevant data. It is customary for us to say that there must be talent in ballet, and in singing too. But in sports, nature should also give you. Sport is not only a job. They also work in ballet, and our musicians, who sit for hours at the instruments. Let's do this — without work, nothing can be achieved anywhere. Labor is the basis, but if nature and parents have also awarded you with some abilities, then it becomes twice as interesting.
And then there are competitions. This is another thing. At competitions, you have to be a predator — literally, like on a hunt, you should feel the taste of blood. From a hare, even the most talented, jumping and fast, you will not make a wolf. Therefore, there is already a selection going on. We had many talented, as you say, athletes. The same Toller Cranston…
— Oh, this is the hero of our last issue.
— He changed the look at men's skating! Belousova/Protopopov were also interested in the same — they showed duet skating, interaction in every movement. Then we came — such impudent Muscovites. Jumped over, ran over them. But now few people will remember that I did not skate with any partner. We skated either in parallel or in the kilian position, because after Protopopov we had to show something else.
So Toller Cranston changed the men's single skating, but he did not win anything. Because his emotions and talent came out of him so strongly that he could not cope with them. And how long it took Natalya Bestemyanova to come to terms with this seething energy of the red-haired beast!
— Well, this is Tarasova.- This is not Tarasova. I think it's experience. Because, excuse me, Tarasova was also at the 1980 Olympics, like two seasons after. We didn't start skating until we fell, we didn't «get sober» (laughs). Because emotions run high. Learning to put them in order, to cope with your body and thoughts — this is probably the sport most of all, and not how many quads you jumped.
«I saw Trusova's completely boorish behavior «
— But this is what Valieva and Shcherbakova are all about — the balance of technical content and choreography.
— Valieva was a very bright girl that season. But something is wrong with this team of coaches.
— In what way?
— Well, in what … Look — 2014, Lipnitskaya. Where is Lipnitskaya in a year? We have lost the girl. Thank God that she now has a family, she got married well, a child. She left with her brains. I saw her — it was just a tortured child. >— How else? There is only one gold, whoever wins it is well done. Whoever loses is naturally offended.
— I'll continue anyway. Then we have 2022 — already three girls. And this hysteria at the Olympic Games. So, something is not quite right there.
—But what's wrong with this reaction? Well, hysteria, yes. The girl went to this medal, it didn’t work out, she was offended. She is a living person with a not yet strong psyche.
— Then she has nothing to do at the adult Olympic Games. For this, there are the Youth Olympic Games.- I think there is a problem. Something with the psychological situation in the group itself. It's all very difficult, I understand how it happens. When Zhuk (Stanislav Zhuk, a Soviet coach who raised many Olympic champions, including Rodnina — ed.) got interested, and I began to retreat to the second, let's say, plan, it wildly infuriated me. I am an egoist. When I left Zhuk, I knew that Elena Anatolyevna Chaikovskaya really wanted (to take her in), but I figured — well, there are Pakhomova/Gorshkov, Kovalev. Am I going to be the third number there? I'd rather go to a coach who will have more freedom and the status of the first number. «/
Alyona Kostornaya, for similar reasons, went to Evgeni Plushenko. Like Sasha Trusova, by the way.
—Listen, how old was I when I left? And these girls passed as minors and with the support of their parents.
Because there is no time now. There is one Olympics — and then everything.
— Yes, there is no time! Just don't compare. I left as a person with great experience and who knew his own worth. The beetle taught us to work independently, at least taught me. Then I started to coach.
So, when I switched to an inexperienced trainer, I used what Zhuk taught. Not how to jump, but how to train and lead the training process.
— You know Plushenko, you were at his skating rink.
— Once. It's hard to see in less than an hour.
—Is Plushenko better psychologically than Tutberidze?
—No. There, too, I saw absolutely, as it seemed to me, boorish behavior on the part of Sasha Trusova. She also told him, but how so? To which he replied: «Well, am I going to redo it? We have competitions soon.»
Regarding Tutberidze — no, I'm only for new champions to appear. After all, many dreamed of a conveyor — both Zhuk, and Tamara Moskvina, and the same Tatyana Anatolyevna. But any conveyor has flaws — primarily psychological. And how much will it cost our country to prepare such a child who will shine in competitions for two or three seasons? What is the asking price? A lot of money. And this is for two or three seasons? We do not live under communism.
— That is, the conveyor is bad?— If it is interesting in itself. And if there is infinite interchangeability, then I'm not interested. Probably, for someone, yes even for the majority, it's great, but my opinion is this. If there is a champion, then I want to see individuality in him — whether in skating, in staging programs. But not in the choreography, let's remove that word. Choreography is at the Bolshoi Theatre, and we have staging programs, where we are obliged to cram the necessary elements in the allotted time and decorate something between them. It's not choreography, don't tell me about it.
It's clear that it's very easy to take music that already has a plot. Where everything is known to the public.
—»Carmen» conditional, «The Phantom of the Opera»?
— Yes. «Don Quixote» is the same. There is nothing to be said. Moreover, all ballet music is written under the feet. To place accents, to take the movements that are in the Bolshoi Theater or in any other where these works are staged, costs nothing. What kind of choreography is this, can you tell me? What kind of creative process?
—But who will repeat Valieva's «Bolero»? The music is hackneyed, but what a program.
— Well, you'll excuse me — the way Torvill/Dean did the «Bolero» is completely different. They have completely new positions. Dancing came to us from the floor, there were absolutely clear, strict positions. And Torvill/Dean showed something completely different from everything else, completely new.
And what did I see in that «Bolero» (Valiyeva), can you tell me? Which I already saw at Plisetskaya the same. I only remember that when Plisetskaya danced Ravel's «Bolero», the men next to me sat and wheezed. This is called femininity, high individuality! Then you can say «talent», and «masterpiece», and «more than a classic». And about figure skating — I didn’t see a masterpiece there.
— Plastic.
— Now all our girls are stretched so that mom don't cry, ballerinas can envy. So what you are talking about is not plastic, but stretch. Flexibility, learn English.
Valieva is talented, I have already said that. But what happened to her (at the Olympics), no one honestly says. This is the loss of her coaching team. But it happened, and you know it very well. It's just that for some reason we speak loudly about some things, but about some things — our heads in the sand. So, the girl was broken. And the coach and the doctor are responsible for this girl. And all these fairy tales of hers, which the IOC and the whole world laughed at …
— Do you mean grandfather's glass?
— Yes. Well, let's be honest.
— And what should be done in such a situation?
— In my opinion, to be honest.
strong>- When we were in Beijing, the next day, when everything was revealed, we broke through in training to the zone where Eteri was, and asked a direct question. She replied: “I don’t do gossip.”
— And after that you ask me what are the problems in this coaching staff. Does Eteri herself know the answer to the question of who is to blame?
— I don't know. I can only say one thing — this is a common flaw. Why don't we simultaneously take our doping tests from them in order to know where we are getting into at all? Everyone knew that these girls would be hunted. So, you need to be ready for this. These are the problems that we are talking about.
— Then let's look from this side — we now actually admit that something bad in this doping story on our part is all did happen. But at the same time, the official rhetoric is that Camila is an innocent child, nothing happened. Why do we do this?
— I have the same question. This is what you submit.
— No. In fact, this is the official position of our authorities, including the ROC and the Ministry of Sports.
— And why do we then ask the question that we are being punished? Yes, there is a political background to all this, but also some kind of punishment.
— So we intentionally anger people?- Hard to tell. But at the same time, only in sports there is a fair play nomination. It is not found anywhere else — neither in business, nor in politics, all the more so. In sports, there are clear rules and a system of punishment for violations. How many, for example, did we lose Olympic medals between 2004 and 2014 inclusive? over forty. And at least someone among us was held responsible for this? I'm not even saying punishment — just responsibility.
— Not counting the permutations of people from place to place.
— You said it right- permutations. I worked with the women's biathlon team, they got caught — they were transferred to the youth team.
— But this cannot be changed.- And why do we then exclaim that we are not loved?
— Because the Americans have a fake smile, and we are sincere. At least that's what they say.
They just have better dentists. The next question, which our journalists wrote a lot about, is how is it that WADA allocated only 19 therapeutic exceptions to Russian athletes, and 500 to Americans and Canadians. But the fact is that I was in the commission from Russia, which was led by Smirnov, and we made a request. To which WADA replied: «We have given you as much as you requested.» /strong>
—Here! We are completely illiterate in this matter.
—Do you know who was the first to say long ago that we do not know how to determine therapeutic exceptions? Chegin.
— Yes, let's even look at our sports medicine in general. After all, we have antidepressants — everything, we don’t have them, but in the West they are widely used. Do you know what happens to our athletes after the competition?
In cyclical sports, they always took biochemistry at the end of the season, at the beginning, in the middle — wherever you can only calculate. Once we shouted that we (the skaters) would have a look. The 1984 Olympics were on. The boys did not allow themselves to be stabbed before and after the start, the girls did, we are bolder. So, after a short program in single skaters, the reaction of the blood is the same as after ten kilometers in skiers. The short program lasts two minutes.
We do not know what processes, changes occur in our body. All of our medicine has worked with cyclic species, but with those where there is coordination, a different psyche, no. I was just lucky that I worked in this international center with the same Michelle Kwan — they are taken out of this state there. And here, on the contrary, after the competition there is a sinking — not physical, but psychological. Moreover, these girls are getting younger and younger, and it always seems to us, they say, oh, everything will pass quickly for the young. But not everything goes away.
This is what you need to do, and not look for drugs that will restore you faster.
«Putin brought the main sponsor to figure skating»
— You say we need to be honest. How can we act so honestly in order to return to international competitions as soon as possible?
— Well, it does not depend on us anymore. do we have absolutely no control over the situation?
— The fact is that it is basically impossible to control the same IOC. I still caught the time when Samaranch was elected, he had a clear program — to stop the boycotts and revive the Olympic movement. Then Rogge came, he also had a program — anti-doping.
— Does Bach have any ideas?
— I did not hear them from him never. He added «Together» to the Olympic motto, but it turns out the other way around. What he meant by the new motto is unclear.On the other hand, what should he do? He seems to be trying to prevent discord as best he can.
— I don't know. He's in his place, it's up to him. I can only say that while this is happening, we need to debug something internally. For example, in our figure skating, does anyone train referees? I was listening to the FFKKR report on the 2018 Olympic Games — they tell me about great achievements in Pyeongchang. Yes, we know these achievements! Although not so big, but still.
The federation must report on its work. Why does she report on the work of the coach and the athlete? Does at least one federation have some long-term plan for preparing people for sending them to international organizations? We have many champions — and Valieva is the same, and whoever you just named. But we don't have a single person in the executive committee or in the committees of the ISU.
— We had a whole vice-president of the ISU in figure skating. And still would be, if not for the age limit.
Are we ready to replace him? Previously, we had representatives in figure skating committees, in ice dancing, Gorshkov even led them.
— And what should the FFKKR do? br>“They have to train these people!” Well, now we have such a misfortune with Sasha Gorshkov. And what? In 2018, I was sitting at a conference, looked at everything — and I immediately felt ashamed. I told them: “Listen, I’m looking at your presidium, everyone else, except for Gorshkov, I still skated, won three Olympics and ten world championships, gave birth to two children, worked in the USA and was elected to the State Duma for the third time, and you as you sat, so you sit.»
We have such a sport that not a single leader has a headache how to fill the stadium. In football it already hurts, in other sports it starts, but in figure skating there is no such problem so far. But we don't have anyone in ISU. Yes, there are victories, but all technical and judicial issues are resolved without us. This is how the federation should report, and not how many medals you have won! As for the conditions that you create for the skaters, it's the Ministry of Sports that pays for everything.
—Well, not all of them. And what about the sponsors? It is impossible to arrange a season in figure skating at the expense of the Ministry of Sports.
— I'll tell you a story. Once upon a time, Sasha Gorshkov approached Vladimir Vladimirovich at a sports council: «We have trouble with figure skating! No money, nothing.» This is how (shows a gesture with a finger) the head of Rostelecom was called: «That's it, you are now responsible for figure skating.»
— Exactly. I understand that there is no way out of this, but there is no management.
— And then we send judges to the ISU advanced training seminar and are surprised that almost no one passes the tests, like in Frankfurt was last year. And we explain everything with Russophobia.
— Right. No, now, of course, we can talk about Russophobia, but I still think that we need to look deeper. We don't train people. Attract them — that's at least Kostomarov of the same. Now our champions are skating in shows, and everyone is happy — people look at them, they earn money. Their salaries are not very high.
— So decide this issue!
«America fought with might and main, but there was no suspension»< br>Do we need to go to international competitions under a neutral flag?
— When it was 2018, I said that I had to go. Because if we didn't go, we had to explain the reason and miss two Olympic cycles. That is, cut off the oxygen to coaches and athletes. Yes, and it is clear why then they were traveling under a neutral flag — they are to blame, no matter what they say. Olympic medals are selected on the basis of tests, and this is, as they say, evidence.
— But now the claims are not about doping anyway.
— Yes. Therefore, now I would not go under a neutral flag. Now the political situation is different, and our athletes this time were not guilty of anything in terms of sports. Why should it be? Just because of what is happening in our country now? And why didn’t this happen in 1960, when America was at war with might and main? It's certainly who we love — who we don't love. This is a violation of the rules of the IOC itself.
I am very sorry for our athletes and coaches, I feel sorry for them, this is a colossal work and stress, but business is business. Someone is looking for some options, playing for another country. And in this context, by the way, the expression «sports citizenship» makes me nervous. Citizenship is one thing.
— Well, now Davis/Smolkin decided to play for Georgia because of the difficult situation, they took sports citizenship of this country.
They took ordinary citizenship. And we know how it's done. With a residence permit, they can compete at the World and European Championships, and at the Olympics — only with citizenship. And what's the difference — well, the girl had American and Russian citizenship, now there will be another one — Georgian. And there is nothing wrong with that. Am I judging, right? I'm just saying — it doesn't matter.
— When you mentioned working in the USA, you said «when I went to the enemies.» Why to the enemies?
Well, it's probably just the language. But in general, that's how it works. You know, on the other hand, I am very glad that I learned from them, worked in an interesting coaching team, in a new environment. I remember asking John Curry — he had just taken up coaching then — what is the secret? And he said that it was not the coach, but the situation.
At first, everyone even laughed at me. I arrived, got acquainted with everyone in a few days and asked: «What hours can I work?» They smiled like this: «Any time! Come and work when you need to.» But I'm used to the fact that we have a clear ice schedule, when which group leaves.
It was very interesting for me there, I learned a lot from them.
>— But at the same time they are «enemies».
— Well, they really are enemies.
— Why do we have such an attitude towards this country?
“You know, I was very well received there. There was one trainer there who spoke German — I had almost no English then, I studied at a German special school — she translated everything for me, helped me. But as soon as students began to come to me and even come from other countries, they began to look at me. Envy — that is envy. After some time, everything began to change cool, because inside the team I became a competitor for them. Especially in pair skating.
I'm a fast learner. Once another coach grabbed my hand, and I told him: “Come on, hold it. Now the skaters’ parents will see you, and here I have my lawyer’s card in my pocket.” You can't touch. At the skating rink, only I was allowed to scream. Apparently, I had so many emotions.
— This year marks ten years since your most provocative tweet — with Barack Obama and a banana.
— So what?
— Did your tweet exist or not?
— No. Unfortunately, not mine!
— Unfortunately? So you can show a banana to Obama?
— You know, maybe I'm just from a generation where a banana was considered a good fruit (laughs). And I'm not in a football party in which a banana means something specific. But this, excuse me, is a set-up — on my birthday they gave me such a gift.