Russian figure skating in its most subjective form — ice dancing — lives in isolation as if blind. How not to destroy traditions and compete on equal terms with the Americans and Canadians, when this becomes possible, the famous coach Alexei Gorshkov told Sport in an interview.
Gray schemes of judges
— The main problem that prevents our dances from living?
— I think the refereeing needs to be put in order. Not everyone, unfortunately, thinks about the fact that their decisions can “kill” a talented athlete. Many people underestimate the impact of grades. For some reason there is no understanding that the quality of judging determines the vector of development of the species in the future, and this is a great responsibility.
Now we have a difficult time, This is a difficult period, so I would like the athletes, looking at the protocols, to understand that they have room for improvement. And now some, on the contrary, understand this in such a way that they don’t need to move anywhere, that everything is fine as it is.
— So the problem is that our judges are too loyal?
— Perhaps… Although we were not the first here. The Americans started the topic of inflated ratings a long time ago, and we began to catch up with them. Do you want to bet tens? Yes, for God's sake, there is no price for them at all. In single skating, technical assessment works more, due to which you can break away from your competitors. In dancing, all top couples have approximately the same technique — the performance of the technical teams, of course, works, but not to that extent. Well, let them be in the difference in points after the first event, if they skated at the same level, so that the free dance would be interesting to watch and the intrigue would remain.
—Is there more of a game of authority now?
— You can say so. But we all must understand that a balloon rising into the sky looks much more solid than a soap bubble that can burst at any moment. Now some are no longer looking towards the performances, but towards which coach will talk better with the judges, how and who the federation looks at. But in the end, everything should depend on your skill and the level that you showed in this particular box office.
And the most interesting thing is that those who quickly reach this idea achieve success. Therefore, this needs to be instilled in advance, from children’s sports, from juniors. I would like to hear the federation’s position on this matter, to see young judges who would be committed to making real competitions. So that there would be those who, in splendid isolation from the entire team, could give an assessment that would go against the rest.
— So this judge will get out of the “corridor”, and his first on the carpet and they will call.
— Well, okay, they called you on the carpet — and you prove your position. Maybe your opinion coincides with the referee and the entire professional community in general? The essence of any collegium is to form some kind of middle ground from the majority of opinions. But now, on the contrary, the middle sucks everyone into itself. I would like to encourage all those involved in dancing to love this form and do everything so that there is real struggle and real competition. Otherwise, all this will continue to kill generation after generation. Now a lot of people are graduating, unable to withstand the situation inside.
— There have even been discussions on this subject — to make a staff judges with a permanent salary, so that they are not interested in participating in various gray schemes. But it is not yet clear how to implement this.
The Americans did an interesting thing in this regard. They have five or six leading technical specialists — and each of them, even before the season, receives a paid trip from the federation and travels to the main dance groups. From Shpilband to Zueva, from her to Kilyakov and so on.
— Why?
— They settle all the omissions in the rules in advance. There is some kind of definition — we understand it one way, but another coach understands it differently. And the Americans are preparing all their leading couples for the season so that their programs are cleaned up precisely from the point of view of the judge’s view, they choose a single line.
«The Americans do it, but here we say «it didn't work»
— We have test skates for the national team for this purpose.
— Test skates… They showed the video and did an analysis. Americans have deeper work. And with us, everyone is tugging at a technical specialist: “Come, please, take a look.” And the main criterion for assessing this or that controversial issue for our judges is “I wouldn’t give/wouldn’t give.” And what does this have to do with you specifically? The rules have been written, so discuss among yourselves how you all evaluate different situations. The Americans somehow do it, but we “didn’t do it.” And hence there are just a lot of controversial situations.
— And then conversations begin that ice dancing is not a sport at all, that the rules are too vague…
— No, well, it’s a sport, of course. And the rules — if we talk about the role of the ISU technical committee, then it feels like they write them in such a way as to have room for maneuver. North America has adapted to this in the following way – and for quite a long time, I must say.
— Yes, and the Montreal Academy, which is leading in world dance, probably too.
— They have it even easier — you can at least invite eight technical controllers from all countries. The group is large.
—Also a kind of strategy.
— Certainly. Another thing is how long will it work? The last World Championship, for example, showed that it will not be easy for the current world champions Madison Chock/Evan Bates. Dominance always leads to the opposite effect, it’s only a matter of time. Making forecasts is a thankless task, but interesting trends have emerged in the international arena. And the level of skating, I must say, has increased noticeably. In my feeling, we are now lagging behind the international level.
—Chock/Bates is that much stronger? Or are they, in some sense, artificial champions?
— Not artificial, under any circumstances. But in the context of the upcoming Olympics, it seems to me that they may have problems. It was really difficult for them at the World Championships, because the Canadians were pushing very hard.
— Do you also think that this time the Canadians Piper Gilles/Paul Poirier should have taken the gold?— For me this is not even discussed.
— What do our dances need to do so as not to lose their potential?
“We need to move forward using deep analysis and understanding of the trends in the development of the species, relying on the rich experience of previous generations. Nowadays in dance the quality of skating and sliding has greatly improved; there is no longer only a fight for GOE. And again, everything depends on the professionalism of the judges, because they are the ones who determine what Russian ice dancing will look like tomorrow. I wish the judging was more professional. And figure out how to motivate people during this difficult time. It would be interesting to enter into a fight with foreigners, of course.
«When Kaganovskaya and Angelopol broke up, we immediately called Vasya»
— You are quite willing to collaborate with other coaching staffs — recently there was a story with the headquarters of Alexander Svinin/Irina Zhuk, now you are collaborating with Anzhelika Krylova. What is the interest of such projects?
“As they say here: one head is good, but one and a half is better.” But seriously, the more opinions, experiences and views are collected, the better the result. Then the work becomes more professional. We continue to work with Alexander and Irina, and this is very important, in my opinion. In this regard, I would immediately like to turn to the example of Montreal. Why is it easier for them than for others? Because there are a lot of good athletes and coaches. This scheme is not new; it started, in my opinion, with Muriel Boucher-Zazoui. She trained Marina Anisina with Gwendal Peizerat, and Isabelle Delobel with Olivier Schonfelder. And those same Canadians Marie-France Dubreuil and Patrice Lauzon.
They took this model from her, where 4-5 coaches always work with an athlete. Even in the production process, they ended up with a kind of patchwork quilt, because the program was put together by different people. And we are also now attracting different specialists for productions. Not like before, when one choreographer did it “turnkey”. We worked like this with Giuseppe Arena, for example. He said: “If I do everything myself, then I’ll put my signature on it. If not, then don’t even mention me.”
— Do you take the best from each other?— Yes, absolutely. If you have a positive attitude and don’t try to pull the blanket over each other, everything can work out. For example, we have no problems with Alexander and Irina. We also worked fruitfully with Nikolai Morozov for a long time, as well as with Igor Shpilband. Now we are trying with Angelica — let's see what comes of it.
— Are you collaborating with Krylova in a group-to-group format?
— No, only for the Kaganovskaya/Nekrasov pair. And with Zhuk/Pork it’s just like a group with a group. In June we will have a joint collection.
— Throughout my career, my wife Lyudmila remained my constant assistant. But at times it was still a bit difficult to carry a large group. After the pandemic, Katya Ryazanova joined the work, and then Ksyusha Konkina. They are great figure skaters, and for a long time we had a “skater-coach” relationship. To my great joy, now we are not just colleagues, but like-minded people who are moving in the same direction.
As a result of our work, a group of “novices” was opened. In addition, we now have 5 good junior couples. Fefelova/Valov won the Schoolchildren's Spartakiad, the boys are developing, they left a bright impression of themselves, it seems to me. Sheptalina/Beijing is our joint project with Svinin/Zhuk. Plus a few more newly assembled pairs, also very interesting and unlike others.
The leaders, of course, are Maxim and Vasilisa. We have been working with them since September last year, as soon as they became a couple. We immediately decided that we wouldn’t go this season, even though they hit each other right away. We gave them a free dance – purely to practice interactions in pairs. Then, in search of their own style, the couple staged three demonstration numbers for the guys, which they presented to the audience in Ilya Averbukh’s show and at the “Russian Challenge”. Well, now we are preparing for test skates.
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— For me personally, it was surprising that the Kaganovskaya/Nekrasov couple was formed at all. Because Maxim and Elizaveta Pasechnik also looked great; in the first season they took bronze at the Russian Championship. What happened to them?
— Actually, nothing special. It was Lisa’s initiative — at some point she got tired and said: “That’s it, I can’t.” But the point of great work is not for one to persuade the other. You need to go in one direction, and if not, then all this is useless. At first we didn’t refuse test skates – you never know. Then Maxim found out that Vasilisa and Valera Angelopol had broken up, and I immediately told him to call her. The next day they tried out, and the next day they were already paired up.
— How do you generally assess them at the moment? From the outside it seems that the couple has already left.
— There is such a thing, but there is still a lot to do. The guys practice a lot of general technique and dance a lot. It's good that they mentally matched each other. Their relationship is decent. Not “here and there,” of course, they can argue, but that’s good. They have great potential, I believe in them.