«Skaters exist on this collective farm»: a conversation with the designer of champions

Costume designer Natalia Bolshakova created images for many world and Olympic champions in figure skating and synchronized swimming . In an interview, the specialist told how to distinguish art from consumer goods, why there was a crisis in Russian ice dancing, and how a bad taste of a coach can affect the results of athletes.

«You go out in a pack and kill everyone»
— You have been in figure skating for over 30 years. Has something important changed for you in it?- I always thought that high-level athletes take costumes more than seriously. Well, I speak from experience. Leading French fashion designers, including Gautier, offered Marina Anisina to do her image for free. And she invited me, the federation paid for the travel, accommodation and the costumes themselves. For her, it was important. You're going for an Olympic medal. And all that will remain in history is this recording of the performance. Everything else will go away: training, effort, form. You will become gray-haired, old, fat, no one will think that a person could once jump like that.

— If you leave specific personalities, what is frivolity manifested in?

— Suit now it can amaze the imagination with the amount of work that the master has done. Say, the number of sewn stones. But from an artistic point of view, this «haute couture» that used to be is gone.From the image we went to the styles: such and such a length of the skirt, open or closed back, bare arms. They fit the music, they don't fit — no one cares. The principle: let's go out in a pack and kill everyone, no one has skated like this for a long time. ? Therefore, they interfere in the process.

— I was told here that the leading Canadian couple Gilles/Poirier draws sketches for herself, and then some master sews costumes from them. Previously, it seemed that their kitsch (sometimes a complete disgrace) was deliberately chosen. Invented by the artist to stand out, to hide the flaws, which they have a lot. It turns out, no, just amateur performance. But even if I or someone else does not like it, you cannot ignore that they are different from others. The most important thing is uniqueness. The rest are just copying other people's samples, and these are trying to do something special. moving away from images to styles, what do you call it?

— Now the coach, as if he is a boss and a star, invites to the team those who can be yelled at, who can be told what to do. Previously, they called, for example, Lyudmila Vlasova or Elena Matveeva — the stars. The coach looked at the guest as an equal, or even from the bottom up, if he was not yet a very experienced specialist.

Now, a person who has read two books in his life, one of them is a primer who has not seen anything but ice, thinks that he knows everything better than anyone. He himself puts on programs, draws costumes, or simply interferes harshly in the process.

Today, artists and choreographers are treated like servants. Give it, bring it, get out. So who's left to work? And what will be the result? It is on this collective farm that Russian athletes exist. They dream of ordering costumes from Canadian artist Matthew Caron.I also worked, one might say, behind the Iron Curtain in Russia. But Brian Boitano, the Olympic champion, asked Serezha Ponomarenko for a shirt that was made by us. Marina Anisina ordered dresses while in France. And now foreigners take costumes from Russia, because it is cheaper here, and not because of beauty. Because a lot of everything on the suit, it is clear that a lot of work — in Europe or America, this will cost a million. People do not understand that this is bad, they consider it masterpieces. If there are neat lines and a lot of rhinestones, then the suit is worthy. But that's not how it works at all.

br>»Before they were afraid to say a word»
– Are there artists whose work you like?

br>I like Matthew Caron. True, he has one star — Madison Chalk. With her, he works very subtly, fiddling, inventing. But it is unrealistic to work with everyone like that — just as it is impossible for one director to stage hundreds of piece programs. Madison's suits on a hanger wouldn't have caused such excitement. It's all a little «too much». Put it on another — it will be a disaster. But this is such an accurate hit that a recognizable style was born. This is how it should be.

Caron, by the way, had patterns in a computer program. It amazed me so much! I always thought that a figure skating suit was haute couture. It is created by tattooing, trying on, and so on. And it's 90% handmade. Computerization — serial work, mass.

— Why are computer patterns bad?- This is not bad, just a consequence of the desire to simplify everything, do it faster and earn more. The fact that computerization has penetrated the sphere suggests that it is becoming utilitarian. And the programs are the same budgetary, utilitarian. couture?

– Couture is what Roman Agenauer sets for Papadakis/Cizeron. Each element is inscribed in the music, you can not put another in its place. Any gesture is meaningful. Every emotion is understandable. Marina Zueva still puts it this way.

— Where did Zueva and Agenauer have such superpowers?

— Why does Marina Zueva have good taste? I have known her for a long time and have worked with her. She has always studied a lot. In those days, athletes still went to school normally and graduated from the institute. She read and saw a lot. You talk to her and understand: a person understands music, theater, art. And this intelligence is visible to me in her programs and in the way athletes grow.

I also know Roman Agenauer for a long time, ever since he worked as a second coach. He was interested in everything and wanted to see, learn, understand, try everything. Europeans, in principle, do not have such that they spend days on end at the rink. It is clear that this greatly affects the horizons and the sense of beauty.

In other countries, figure skating is most often done by children of parents who are well off thanks to a good education. And we have a sport — a social elevator. But if earlier people came here who were afraid to say a word, because professionals worked with them, now parents decide for themselves, and for public money, which is surprising. Paradox: people do not manage their own money.

In the 90s, there was no such funding and close, but it still worked the old way. Therefore, the results were. And now, not a single country in the world has ever dreamed of such state investments in sports as in Russia. And what have we come to? I think I have the right to talk about it, because it just hurts to watch. She has devoted her whole life to this work. Well, they were before the removal of our team. So, everything is fine with us.

— In single skating, yes. But everything went, unfortunately, into technology. It is unbearable to see how the piece programs of the same Japanese women lose to the passing ones because of the technique. On the one hand, this is right, probably because it is a sport. But it seems to me that we had no right to lose artistry. This has always distinguished figure skating, made it a special sport. Russian ice dancing?- My heart bleeds, as we gave up positions. I really like the Stepanova/Bukin couple. They are so beautiful! As an artist, I get aesthetic pleasure from just looking at them. But they are secondary. And they don't win. Although there is everything for victories.

The same with Sinitsina/Katsalapov. I hope Sasha (Zhulin) will not be offended by me. He worked brilliantly with them in the sense that he made such a win-win option, «Russian style», albeit in the 90s. They performed well and took silver medals at the Olympics. But they should not and could not become champions, because they did not bring anything new to figure skating. Papadakis brought in. Marina Anisina contributed, although one can argue who then skated better, she or Averbukh. Verchu/Moir of the 2010 model was introduced. Yes, there are random champions too. But it is precisely those who have brought their own that remain for centuries.

Is Verchu/Moir of the 2018 Olympics model not so close to you anymore?

— When they left to train in Montreal, I categorically did not like either the programs or the style. In my opinion, they should have lost the 2018 Olympics. Despite this ill-fated strap (Papadakis's dress came undone in the rhythm dance — ed.). Verchu/Moir without Zueva lost their charm. From somewhere these Latins in leggings, «Moulin Rouge» came from … Like children: today — gypsy, tomorrow — Carmen, the day after tomorrow — the East. They skated just as well as before, they were insanely technical, but they lost the artistic component.– Why do we now have such a massive exodus of leading duets to one coach in dance?

– I am amazed at this herd feeling. Why, if Zhulin is a good coach, did everyone go to him? Because no one wants to try and excel. Because Zhulin will have connections, there will be funding, there is no need to think about ice, where to get money for this and that. Plus he has a good personality. «Yes, everything will be zashib in general,» — so, apparently, the athletes think. Nobody wants to step out of their comfort zone and try something new.

Is there any coaches in Russia who are similar in their work to the best examples that you remembered today?

— There are no such stars among the coaches. Someone left Russia, someone got old. Tarasova started it all. She began to work with Zaitsev, invited Matveeva. But she is a person. What friends she has! From my husband to everyone else. Guess where I most often met Tarasova? At a piano concert in the great hall of the conservatory. Or at a performance at the Sovremennik Theatre. She herself went there and took students. This is how she brought everyone up thanks to her own broad outlook. Some may not like her personal taste, but she definitely understands art.

And if a person, apart from a nail salon and a restaurant, has not seen anything in life, how can he understand the difference between art and consumer goods? Current coaches have seen nothing. They know that Louis Vuitton is good. And if, they say, I put it on, everyone will think that I have good taste. But not the coat brand is an indicator of your taste, but what your athletes ride. – Are you talking about someone specific?

— Here is a group of Tutberidze to take. Everyone thinks: if these girls are champions, then what they are wearing is good. And everyone will dress so ugly. My opinion: the Tutberidze group looks ugly. So write it down. Tasteless. Unprofessional, just awful. Whole group. But everyone will dress the same, because they have not seen another and look up to the Olympic champions.

– Can you articulate why exactly you think this is tasteless?
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— Because this is not the intention of the artist and director. There is a conveyor of dresses or overalls: today we will make green, tomorrow — blue, the day after tomorrow — red. More stones, gradient, any tinsel — you're done. Moreover, decisions are made either by the coach or by the parents, but the dressmaker does all this with golden pens, without having the right to vote or just her own opinion. In fact, everyone is dressed the same, without taking into account the individuality of each girl and her specific image in the program. Who will be puzzled by such trifles.

Abroad, too, not everyone is so smart, there are bad examples. But not a single French or Italian woman in such a dress as the Tutberidze girls wear will come out. Simply because she grew up among others.

It is the same in rhythmic gymnastics with Irina Viner. This is a catastrophe. Tracksuits and diamonds — how's that? Bad taste is promoted in our country. Children dream that they will grow up — they will also buy diamonds, Louis Vuitton, put on a hat and walk like that. At the same time, Wiener is a brilliant director who gave life to many champions. But in matters of taste, it cannot be a guideline.

A coach for athletes is a king and a god. But if a person is successful, this does not mean that he has impeccable taste. One is not attached to the other. He cannot have all the talents at once.

br>»Single skaters with quads will not be watched in 30 years»
– We will proceed from the fact that not everyone by default can distinguish the worthy from the unworthy. How can you cultivate this in yourself?

“People need to see beautiful things. It's like with music. People who come to a concert for the first time and hear any pianist will think: «Oh, how great he plays!» Even if he acts disgusting. Simply because they have not heard another and so they do not know how. And when you hear one, the second, the third, you can compare and then you will already distinguish the bad from the good. But this must be taught from childhood.

— And you will again be objected that this is all secondary, and the technique and the sports component are really important.

— One well-known sports manager, who, as far as I know, at one time worked with Sasha Trusova, wrote the following phrase about a successful athlete: «A 100% completed project.» An athlete with all his virtues, program, choreography, image. And now we have no projects.

– Can you give some recent examples of such «projects»?

— Marina Zueva sculpts something similar with Daisuke Takahashi. His career is phenomenal, of course, and the way he looks now in ice dancing. Or an even more striking example — Papadakis/Sizeron. Everything, including their behavior off the ice, the way they talked, how they dressed and what they did. But by the way, I don't know who worked with them on the costumes. Perhaps there is a personal contribution, because Sizeron has an art education.

– In Russia, someone can create such a project?

– There is no one in Russia to create a project. In addition to Ilya Averbukh, in my opinion. He is generally very smart. But to create a project in sports, he needs to completely abandon the show.

With the same Stepanova/Bukin, he choreographed a secondary dance. «We're like Papadakis, only better.» You repeated after them. The first will be those who are sometimes even a little worse, but come up with their own.

You may not like the conditional Madison Chalk. But don't confuse her with anyone. She just doesn't want to be «like Papadakis».

— What needs to be done to change everything for the better?

>- Everyone must do their job. Coach, costume designer, choreographer. They study all their lives without ceasing.

There must be education. And we need to stop the disgrace with the issuance of diplomas as an attachment to the Olympic medal. Even if someone has learned to speak well, this does not change the general state. They are all uneducated. Why give a diploma from Moscow State University? Discrediting higher education, shame on Russia. But athletes then become coaches.

— Can a non-professional see and understand those subtle matters that you are talking about?

— The non-professional will also see. It's just that he will evaluate after a while, and a professional can evaluate in the moment. Watch recordings of past champions' performances. There was no such refined technique as now, such opportunities for athletes, the fashion of those times is long gone. But it looks solid and beautiful so far — and the costume, and the program, and the preparation of the skater. It's like you're watching a play.

Thirty years from now, people will continue to watch Papadakis/Cizerona because there's a program there. A standalone exhibit of a wonderful exhibition. Single skaters with their quadruple jumps and uninteresting programs will not be watched, because in 30 years skaters will start doing quintuple jumps. We are now reviewing Yagudin's «Winter» not because of the quadruple sheepskin coat, unthinkable for that time. And not for the track of the first level according to the current rules. «Winter» and other programs of a similar scale — a brilliant idea, embodied through the art of choreography, staging, costume. Therefore, they have no statute of limitations.