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Why is Slutsky a weak coach, together with Dziuba they are idiots, and Mario Fernandez is a completely rotten football player? Is this so? Why did alcoholics always defeat non-drinkers, and the great Anatoly Tarasov understood that people needed to relax with vodka? How the KGB took away the currency, leaving it only for Coca-Cola, and how Soviet football players brought smuggled weapons from abroad — hot stories from the legendary defender of the USSR national team Vladimir Ponomarev, who was saved from racketeering by Taiwanchik and Dadakhanov — in an interview with Sport.
«In South America they gave me a box of vodka. It's disgusting — terrible. But we drank it all»
— Vladimir Alekseevich, you have been associated with CSKA for more than 60 years. How is the current team different from the team of your time?
— To be honest, everyone, and first of all the class. The level of Russian football has dropped greatly. Our coaches Yakushin, Soloviev, Beskov would simply go crazy if they saw how it is customary to play now.
— What's wrong?
— When Nikolai Morozov was the national team coach, he said: in two or three passes the ball should be in the opponent’s penalty area. And now we are watching how the players play the ball throughout the match. This is anti-football. In Soviet times there would have been a whistle. Now it makes absolutely no difference who plays right or left back. Put up a post, they won’t even dribble around it, they’ll pass it back to the goalkeeper. But if a defender does not see the continuation of the attack, then he is not a defender.
— Which of the Russian defenders knows how to find the best options to continue the attack?
— Oddly enough, Akinfeev sees options, but there are no good defenders. They would rather silently pass the ball to the midfielders. Our SuperMario (Fernandez) plays exactly the same way. But I don't want to talk about him. He is not a player at all, he is a low-class football player. Useful only in our filthy football.
— Who is the best CSKA coach for you?
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— There were many good ones: Soloviev, Beskov. This is not Slutsky, who has no authority. Dzagoev didn’t pay any attention to him at all and yelled obscenities. But he did not interfere, and the team played on its own. Then they wanted to kick him out, but he came to Giner and persuaded him to stay. Now he and Dzyuba have wrapped up the show. Maybe they will still pose naked there? Two idiots. The fact of the matter is that such a coach cannot lead CSKA. The coaches even taught us how to dress: white shirt, tie, suit. True, they didn’t follow anything else. Drunkenness was widespread.
— Did you observe discipline yourself?
— Nope, and played absolutely normally. I was recently sent an interesting study in which an Italian coach set up a game between alcoholics and those who do not drink at all. Alcoholics won, because they definitely need to liberate themselves. When we came to South America, did we really rule there? Not a damn thing. The heat is 30 degrees, I’m already tired of training. Petrovich asks us: “Well, shall we play a match?” We told him: “Of course. From the police team? Yes, please, it doesn’t matter to us.” We won them, and they gave us a box of vodka. Nasty — just terrible. Petrovich, as soon as he saw it, said: “I’ll confiscate everything, bring it to my room.” Only by the end of the trip no one had a single bottle left.
— And what about the coach?
— Nothing. We always had a drink after the game. There was a case in Zurich. The coach makes sure that there is not a drop of alcohol on the table. Then Valera Voronin began to walk between the tables and loudly ask: “Who will be first?” And he himself whispers: “There will be vodka there.” I went to the kitchen and arranged for the staff to actually pour vodka into the plates. The employees were generally stunned that Russians would drink vodka from dishes. But we all drank and ate some bread.
— Was this the same in other sports?
— The guys in hockey drank a lot. We once met in a cafe on Sokol, they immediately ordered a box of vodka and poured it into glasses. E-my, then I was stunned by the quantity. I drank, of course, but after that I went home to sleep. And they have training the next day. Their coach Anatoly Tarasov comes to the ice, and there is such a stench there. Well, he says: “Comrade Kulagin, conduct a training session, I won’t work with drunk players.” That's all. It happened that Tarasov often hid his guys in the guardhouse for drinking. But, of course, it was stylized and unreal. The guilty person simply sat isolated in the room, sleeping off. That's the whole guardhouse. So everyone was fine. Many understood that if the guys didn’t relax, nothing would work out.
— Were you sent to the guardhouse?
— Is it really impossible to live without alcohol?
— Once we tried to sit at a training camp for two or three weeks without alcohol. The results got worse. As a result, Marshal Grechko called our coach, called the whole team, they dressed us in military uniform, and off we went. He sits, breaks his pencils: “What nonsense are you doing? What kind of game?” What is this for? The football player’s legs couldn’t play without alcohol. Many after the game simply disappeared, two days later they were found, brought to the training camp in Arkhangelskoye, they soaked, went to matches and played like handsome men.
— Why then is there such a negative attitude towards alcohol now?
— Yes, everyone drinks anyway! There's nothing you can do about it. The motivation is unique, if you are constantly in control, you will be useless.
— That is, being a hooligan is useful?
— Yeah, that's for sure. I remember we decided to play a prank on one of the security officers who traveled with us all the time. We persuaded the guys from the team to spread a rumor that we were staying in South America. And Voronin, in front of the security officer, specially said loudly: “Ponomar and Khmelnitsky want to stay in Uruguay, tomorrow a car will come for them at nine in the evening.” This one blew my ears. For the sake of plausibility, we stuffed our bags with whatever came to hand and made our way to the car. The security officer grabbed us by the collar and made an incredible noise. And in the hall, the other football players could no longer stand it, they started laughing, then he realized that he had been played.
“They didn’t take women on the bus, but they put her on”
— You mentioned the training camp in Arkhangelskoye. How did they go?
— We lived together with hockey players. The humor was continuous. When they arrived from the game, they absolutely didn’t feel like eating, but they sat and waited. Then they pounced on our food and ate everything.
— There were no joint trainings?
— They kept telling us: “Well, what are you doing there — you went out onto the football field in shorts and ran, and we are poking around on the ice, leaving so much strength.” They persuaded us to play football, they thought it would be easy. Tarasov dressed them in sports uniforms, the weather was wonderful, and the game began. Only after half an hour did they finish, because they were tired, stopped running, and also conceded five goals. Tarasov says: “That’s it, stop this disgrace.” So they realized that football is not easy.
— Still, being in the same space all the time is quite difficult. Were there any clashes between the players?
— I don’t remember anyone insulting anyone, there were never any fights either. This would be punished very harshly. There was a very friendly atmosphere.
— Did the football players escort women to the base?
— No, that’s it did not have. But there was one girl, Masha, who was a fan of hockey and football. Once she came to us in Arkhangelskoye before a game and everything revolved around one football player: “Serge, take me with you, well, take me.” But we never took women on the bus, it was not customary, but they put her on. I sat in the first row next to coach Vsevolod Bobrov. When we arrived at Luzhniki, the fans almost went crazy.
— Were there many such fans?
— There were, of course. We met after the game and called. But I didn’t have any interesting stories with them, just light flirting. We were really tired, everyone was focused on the game. Now there is no such thing, they don’t get tired at all. And we trained so hard that we couldn’t even stand in the shower; we lay down straight on the floor to get a little wet.
— How did you meet your wife?
— She found me herself. We met at the wedding of Shesternev, who married figure skater Tatyana Zhuk. She just had a friend Ira, who worked in an ice circus ensemble. Tanya brought her to me. I talked to her, then I looked, there was no intimacy, I thought: “Well, screw her, she’s uninteresting.” And I gave up completely. But then we met at the stadium, and our thoughts were completely different: “What a beautiful girl, what a Christmas tree, why did I miss her?” That's how it all started. If it weren't for her, I wouldn't have gotten married. Although some girls were very hopeful, I was not ready with others.
— What is the most romantic thing you have ever done?
— My wife had a blood disease, and we went on vacation to Arkhangelskoye to the sanatorium of the Ministry of Defense. Ira’s birthday was on August 17, and I didn’t know what to give, I already had everything. As a result, I went to the river where huge white lilies grew. I swam there in slippers and clothes, picked these flowers and brought them home. She was, of course, impressed to the point of tears. And I myself did not expect such a reaction, because she had diamonds and fur coats, no problems. I spoiled her a lot.
“The red price of our football players is 10,000 dollars”
— If drunkenness was widespread, then why were you forced to end your career precisely because of this . What happened then?
— There was a game in Odessa, which we lost. At that moment I was sitting in reserve. After the match we went to a restaurant, everyone drank, including me. I probably drank 150 grams of vodka and went to bed, and my roommate Vladimir Fedotov disappeared somewhere. Late in the evening the second coach comes to me, wakes me up, asks: “Where is Fedot?” I say: “I don’t know.” After half an hour or an hour he comes into the room again and asks: “Where is Fedot?” Well, I answered: “I told you, I don’t know. And anyway, fuck off.” He complained about me to Bobrov, he calls me and says: “Volodya, shame on you, you’re drinking, the team is in this situation.” But what did I drink? 100 grams, so what? And there was a political worker with us. He wanted to curry favor with his superiors and took me to Moscow for an examination. This was an idea to prove that the team lost because Ponomarev was drunk. An excuse was definitely needed. We flew by plane. I go to the pilots, explain the situation, they gave me a pill so that the examination would not show anything. It really helped. I call this political worker all kinds of names, write a report: “I ask you to take some measures for the insult.” But this case was frozen.
— Why did you end your career if the case was frozen?
— In fact, this was not the only reason. Before every game you always try really hard. You go to bed and definitely think about your opponents, about your actions on the field. And at some point I didn’t care. Tired of fees, trains, planes. I decided: “To hell with this football, I have a family.” I'm exhausted. My nervous system was no longer ready. And my health was no longer the same. After the World Cup I arrived tired, everyone said that I needed to rest. But I definitely had to play: my body demanded it, and I got used to popularity. Well, he finished the game: he bowled the ball incorrectly, his foot choked and he immediately tore two menisci. What then are the operations? Half my knees were cut, it was hard to play. I was supposed to go to the 1970 World Cup, but I ruined myself. As a result, I wrote a report.
— Nowadays it’s fashionable to take breaks and then come back. Have you thought about it?
— It was not accepted then. I said: “Get me a job, I’d rather go there.” So he became a senior teacher at the Military Institute of Foreign Languages. By the way, I received more than in football, because I was awarded another military rank.
— Nowadays salaries in football are very high. Wasn’t it like this in Soviet times?
— Now the salaries are simply crazy, although our players are given a red price of $10,000. Still, they waste their health, but no more. In our time, of course, army men received decent wages. Everyone had the same salary — 180 rubles in the main team, 140 in the backup team. Another 120 rubles were paid additionally for stars. The rest of the teams got out of it: the people of Kiev held positions in the mines, Dynamo paid extra to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, Spartak were underground millionaires. Everyone envied us that we officially received 300 rubles. True, the car at that time cost five thousand.
— Did you have a car?
— Yes, I bought it in England when we went to the world championship. Then Adidas paid me about 1.5 thousand dollars for me to play in their uniform. And the USSR Football Federation paid 500 dollars. I paid for the Volga for $1200 and received it in Moscow.
— Has the Federation paid such amounts every time?
— We were paid for our stay in the country. For each country we received 80 dollars. It was a lot. We stayed in Paris or Copenhagen and had to buy all this money in a few hours, because currency could not be imported into Russia. I remember that the impresario, Swede Alans, always traveled with us. Every time we asked him: “Alans, buy us a bottle of Coca-Cola.” He was surprised: “Are you stunned? I brought you 20 thousand dollars in cash for the game!” Only we had nothing, all the money was put into his suitcase by one person from the KGB. I don’t know where this money went, but we didn’t see it, although we earned huge sums. That’s why they let us go abroad, there was nowhere else to take currency from.
“Vladimir Alekseevich, a crazy person came in with a gun and demanded money.”
— Often did football players smuggle contraband?
— Many people did this, but I couldn’t. In order to sell this product in Moscow, it was necessary to have a special vein. I brought it once, but abandoned it. He gave everything to his mother. But I had one friend from Rostov, German, who bought a hundred huge scarves in Chile, each for a dollar. And to take them to Moscow, he bought another huge suitcase. So huge that my friend Vitaly Khmelnitsky lay down in it and we were able to close him there. So, Herman sold these scarves for 80 rubles. Consider that you've earned your car. That is, it cost him only $100.
— What did you usually buy for resale?
— Usually women's clothes. This was not punishable in any way, so take what you want. But, of course, not pistols. Although one of our football players tried to smuggle two revolvers, he was arrested for this and barely got out of jail. They kept me in detention for several months and released me. But, to be honest, I also brought a revolver.
— Tell us!
— We were in Brazil and went for a walk with a teammate. We went into an ordinary department store, and there were weapons in the window. I saw one revolver — white, shiny, very beautiful. It turned out that you can buy it without documents. Well, I paid 20 dollars for it. Then I think: “What am I going to do with it?” I wanted to throw it into the water, but I felt sorry for it and left it. Before flying to Moscow, I sat in my room and made a hiding place: I took a volume of Yesenin, put the pistol in and cut out the outline of the place where I ended up putting it. In New York they didn’t really check us, but when we arrived in Moscow, everyone had to go through a frame. I took the book under my arm, walked through the metal detector, and of course I rang it. They tell me: “Young man, give it everything you have and go through it again.” And I had the keys to the house in my pocket, I put them out, put a book on top and walk through. The inspector did not notice.
— What is the fate of the revolver?
— I sold it, you fool, although it’s a shame. I bought an expensive car, a Volga, and I didn’t have any damn money for it. I foolishly showed the revolver to one Georgian, he pestered me: “Sell it, sell it, I’ll give you money for a car.” I gave it to him.
— Have there been times in your life when you were threatened?
— Only when I was running a restaurant business. I started with a tent, then they were opened everywhere in Moscow. I think: “What is it? Can’t I?” He stole a container near Smolenskaya Square, brought it to CSKA and placed it behind the fence. The head of CSKA calls me and asks: “What did you bring?” I explain that I am opening the tent. He doesn’t understand how I will trade behind the fence. I offered to cut the fence, said that it would be possible to weld it back if something happened, and he gave permission. I must say, I traded very well. One friend gave me a machine to make popcorn, I also had sausages and bread. There are too many people to turn around.
— Why did they abandon it then?
— The new head of CSKA came and said: “Ponomarev, you are selling some nonsense. I give you permission to build a good establishment on this site.” But I didn’t have that kind of money. I started looking for a partner. I knew one half-Greek, half-Russian who sold paintings. He had a lot of money. I suggested the idea of a restaurant to him, and he gladly agreed. But it didn't work. Back then they stole a lot and brought their vodka and cognac to sell. I had to sit and control it all the time, but I couldn’t do that. As a result, the business was bought from my partner, he didn’t even warn me.
— Have you encountered racketeering?
— Repeatedly. One day the director of the restaurant calls me: “Vladimir Alekseevich, some crazy person with a gun came to us and demands money.” I come and say: “What do you want? Money? Do you know Shakhrudi Musaevich?” And Shahrudi then owned the entire CSKA bazaar (Shakhrudi Dadakhanov, president of the CSKA football club in the 1990s — editor's note). Well, the bandit rolled his eyes at me and began to apologize. There was one more moment. They demanded $20,000 from me to stop the restaurant from functioning. But what do I care, since they bought it, break it yourself. But they stubbornly demanded money. Then I called my friend Taiwanchik (Alimzhan Tokhtakhunov). He says: «Set the arrow.» Alik’s guys arrived in a luxury car, entered the restaurant, approached those jackals, and talked to them about something. As a result, the extortionists come up to me and say: “Vladimir, excuse us, we didn’t know that you had such acquaintances.” That is, there is no way without this; it was necessary to have a roof. It has always been, is and will be.
“The tank commander deploys the turret and demolishes the cafe with a cannon”
— How did you end up in Hungary?
— I was 44 years old when I left there. My son had asthma, and the doctors said that the climate needed to be changed. The choice was between Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Since I had very good connections, everyone respected me and allowed me to leave. I worked there for almost 6 years.
— At that time, did you encounter insults based on ethnicity?
— Never. Although how our soldiers misbehaved — very much! It was something scary. I remember how our team played a game with the Hungarians and we won with a big score. So our officers arrived at the tavern in a tank. Word for word, a brawl broke out, and the tank commander jumped out, deployed the turret and demolished the cafe with a cannon. The incident is crazy. The guys were arrested and fired from service. But there has never been discrimination.
— Do you believe that now Hungary is a friend for Russia?
— No. Neither them, nor the Turks, nor anyone can be trusted. Only for some reason we believe everyone. Once deceived, twice deceived. How much can you cheat? It's a shame for Russia.
— Are you following the progress of the SVO?
— I am following. I believe that we can win. Ours reached Kyiv, but received orders to turn back. What can you do here?
— How soon do you think we can return to the international arena?
— We will return as soon as we defeat this Bandera group. Everything will fall into place and everyone will come to us. After this, there will be a flag and an anthem, but this requires serious action.
— At the moment, the IOC is really trying to resolve the situation or are these empty words?
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— It is led by the Americans, just like they are led by Ukraine: if they are allowed, they will end the war, if not, they will continue. What the IOC is now proposing is simply unacceptable. Under no circumstances should you agree to these terms. I can’t imagine any Soviet athletes doing something like this. We valued the flag, the anthem, and the country very much. There is no other way.
— Many are now changing citizenship. How do you feel about this?
— This is betrayal. I would never do this, although I was invited to Manchester United. The British delegation came to my room and persuaded me to run away. I tell them: “I can’t, my father works in the KGB.” And I myself was ready to play only for Russia. After all, the Motherland.