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Russian and Belarusian figure skaters have been deprived of the opportunity to compete on the international stage for more than a year and a half, but so far there has not been a single tournament where they competed with each other. If Belarusians perform in Russia, they do so outside of competition—you won’t find their names in the final protocols. About the reasons for this situation, as well as why the International Skating Union is in no hurry to return athletes from our two countries to the “family,” the Sport correspondent spoke with the head coach of the Belarusian figure skating team, Honored Coach of Russia, Olympic champion Oleg Vasiliev.
«I asked Matytsin four times to open up the opportunity for us to compete with the Russians»
— Oleg Kimovich, in January 2022, in our interview, you formulated two goals for your work as head coach of the Belarusian national team. The first is for Belarusian figure skaters to take their place on the international stage, in particular, to compete at the Olympics. The second is to build a system that would provide the country with these skaters.
— The first task, in general, was completed. Two athletes — Konstantin Milyukov and Victoria Safonova — took part in the Olympic Games in Beijing. At the 2022 European Championships, Safonova and the pair Bogdana Lukashevich/Alexander Stepanov entered the top ten, winning two quotas each for subsequent tournaments. As for the second task, I was required, rather, not to build, but to build on the system. In Russia there is a pyramid of training athletes — many children, a good average level and a strong elite in all four disciplines of figure skating. In Belarus there are also many children involved in figure skating, there is practically no average level, and there is no top level at all. In Belarus, both in sports and in the country as a whole, the system works to create a good, average level. A breakthrough to the top implies a way out of the coordinates that have developed over the past 25-30 years. The task is difficult, but I don’t break anything, but create a superstructure.
— Places in the international arena for Belarusian figure skaters, like and the Russians, a month after that conversation, disappeared, that is, it is now impossible to continue to carry out the first task. Has your funding decreased since your suspension?
— No, it was and remains average. I have no problems with him. There is ice, we get skates creakingly — not because they don’t want to give us them, but because the borders are closed, both physically and financially. The costumes are being sewn slowly, but. The problem is that all this does not bring visible results. And I need this in order to go beyond the average and get the most out of the material that I have — athletes and coaches.
— Cash bonuses in Belarus for figure skaters for any achievements pay?
— During the year and a half of suspension, and before that, during the year of the pandemic, not a single skater of mine received a penny of bonus payments. Salary, fees, food — yes. Bonuses — no.
— That is, as you said earlier, Belarusian figure skating is still not in terms of money hockey.
– As I already said, in order for us to move on, we need visible results. What I mean by “visible” are the European and World Championships, the Olympic Games. They are not there for us now.
— In athletics, where we are similarly excluded from international competitions, throughout last season Belarusians were full participants in the commercial series “Queen of Russian Sports.” We are now talking on the sidelines of the Panin-Kolomenkin Memorial in St. Petersburg, where Belarusian figure skaters performed. But they are not in the starting or final protocols — although, for example, in women's single skating Safonova took fourth place.
— Skating outside of competition. If she had skated in a competition, she would not have been on the ice first in front of all the other participants, and her scores for components — and perhaps for technique — would have been different. It is quite possible that she would have been on the podium.
— So why are she and other Belarusian figure skaters performing out of competition? Are we embarrassed that they are participating in Russian competitions?
— That's not the point. The Belarusian Skating Union (BSK) works closely with the Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFKKR). But the General Director of the FFKKR Alexander Ilyich Kogan says in plain text: “We need to distribute our athletes – juniors, adults – according to competitions, provide everyone with starts. You, Belarusians, are not at all interesting to us.”
Yes, it gives us the opportunity to compete outside of competition in Russian tournaments. But not in competition. And then — if we were notified in advance that we were admitted to the Panin-Kolomenkin Memorial, we agreed on the composition, then in most cases we receive notification of admission to the stages of the Russian Grand Prix at the last moment. When someone withdraws due to illness, injury or some other reason, they call us and say: a place has become available, come. That is, in most cases we don’t even manage to plan this.
Yes, this is a big problem for Belarusian figure skaters, but this is not a problem for the Russian Figure Skating Federation. It's only bad for us, everyone else is neither warm nor cold.
— I was in Minsk at the August Games of the CIS countries, where the importance of sports cooperation between Russia and Belarus was repeatedly emphasized. “We are consolidated in this difficult time; on our part, we will fully support any forms of cooperation within the CIS countries in individual sports, in categories of athletes. We consider the period of sanctions as a period of opportunity,” Russian Sports Minister Oleg Matytsin said there. How does all this correlate with the thesis “We are not interested in you”?
— From the end of last season until September inclusive, I had four meetings with Matytsin. Personal, face-to-face, somewhere on the “legs”. I asked him the same thing: please talk to the leadership of the FFKKR so that they open up the opportunity for us, Belarusian skaters, to compete with the Russians. I don’t know whether this helped or not, but this season two starts will be organized, which were already held for speed skaters last season. These are the Friendship Cups — in December in Minsk, in March in Saransk. Everyone there will already participate in the competition. But the paperwork process has not yet been completed; these are preliminary agreements that must turn into reality. There is no final agreement, although less than two months remain until December. Everything is going very hard. The Ministry of Sports wants it, the ROC wants it, we want it. I hope that the FFKKR wants it too.
There is also a reason why things are moving so slowly. The classification requirements in Russian and Belarusian figure skating are different. If we had participated in the Panin Memorial competition, this would not have been consistent with a number of federation rules that are prescribed in relation to certain competitions. That is, you need to change the order and documentation, and this is not easy.
— But this is chicanery, a far-fetched reason in a situation where athletes need these starts.
— Which athletes? The Russians don’t need it.
— Yes, I think it would be interesting for the Russians to compete with the same Safonova.
— This is understandable, both with her and with Evgeny Puzanov. But for this, the FFKKR needs to change its standards. Why would she do this for the sake of one or two seasons?
— Why one or two? Nobody knows when we will be allowed back onto the international stage. It seems to me that there are no more optimists left. But besides this, what’s wrong with unified competitions, regardless of the international situation? Could there be problems with the ISU because of joint competitions?
— No. We can hold them as club tournaments. They are not regulated by the International Skating Union. And each athlete is assigned to a club. Regarding the club competitions, the ISU cannot show us anything, legally everything is clean and legal.
— At the Games of the CIS countries in Belarus, great attention was focused on many competitions. I myself saw the rhythmic gymnastics palace in Minsk packed to capacity. In figure skating, with the right approach and promotion, joint tournaments could also be of interest to the public.
— Agree. But it all comes down to personality. Some people want to change something, but others don’t. I repeat once again, the FFKKR has its own tasks. There are many athletes, they all need to be provided with starts. While the FFKKR has them as a priority, Belarusians are not interesting and not needed. No matter how much I talk with Oleg Vasilyevich Matytsin, the President of the Russian Olympic Committee Stanislav Pozdnyakov, with the head of the NOC of Belarus Viktor Lukashenko, there is only one answer: we agree that joint tournaments are needed. No one says “no”, “it’s difficult” or “let’s wait”. Everyone says it is necessary.
Five collegiums of the ministries of sports of Russia and Belarus have already passed, and there will be a sixth soon. But in figure skating nothing goes beyond words. It even works in speed skating. The head of the Russian Skating Union Nikolai Gulyaev has come to Minsk many times, there are joint competitions, everything is a competition. Related sports, but everything is good in skating, but not yet in figure skating.
«Russia has lost influence in the ISU through its own fault»
— There are recommendations International Olympic Committee (IOC), but the ISU still does not want to implement them, not allowing Russian and Belarusian figure skaters to participate in international competitions. Why do you think?
— Firstly, the word “recommendations” has nothing behind it. Secondly, let's remember that the ISU board is made up of people aged 80 give or take years. They all have high salaries, under a million dollars a year, which are provided by the IOC. And until the IOC actually tells the ISU “allow it,” they won’t do anything. Are they feeling bad? They travel to international competitions, fly business class, and live in five-star hotels. All this, as well as food and drinks, is paid for. This is all in addition to the salary.
— But ISU is losing money due to the lack of Russians.
— They have more than $200 million in reserves. They will earn three million dollars a year less because there are no Russians — so what? This is not catastrophic for them.
I spoke with ISU Director General Fredi Schmid at the ISU Congress a year ago. They understand perfectly well that they are losing money. But peace and well-being for the members of the council and the top of the ISU are much closer than the three to four million potential losses due to the absence of the Russians.
— What does “calm” mean? What are they afraid of — incidents?
— Yes, they are not afraid of anything. They didn’t want to let Russians into the same congress a year ago, but then they let them in, and nothing happened, everyone communicated calmly, no one “punched anyone in the face.” They just don't want any complications. No matter what happens. You and I may not understand this. If we reach the age of 80, we will have a pension of 50 thousand dollars a month — then maybe we will understand.
And let’s not forget that all the athletes and countries that didn’t even claim the podium before now have medals. The entire world figure skating community is happy that there are no Russians. A different level of competition, a different distribution of bonuses. Everyone likes it.
— But this is discrimination, and the IOC has leverage over the ISU, like any international Federation — take away the right to host Olympic competitions, cut off funding…
— It’s not easy for Thomas Bach either. I wouldn't want to be in his place right now. Where are the IOC sponsors from? That's right, from the West. If Bach does something they don't like, what will happen? Complete collapse of the Olympic movement. I think Bach doesn’t want his name to be associated with this.
Bach initially allowed this situation. But now he can’t get out of it. If he had immediately said that sport is outside of politics, whoever wants to participate in competitions, whoever doesn’t want to does not participate, the situation would have been different. But he followed the political lead of his sponsors. And now he’s rushing around, saying one thing, then another. And he does not control the situation.
— Returning to the ISU — we had influence in this organization. How did we lose him?
— Through my own fault. They did it with their own hands. You and I have already talked about “dinners between Russian coaches and international judges,” contracts and so on. Nobody liked it. And little by little they tried to remove us from all significant positions. Nobody liked the extra pressure — neither the Americans, nor the Canadians, nor the Europeans. We overdid it and got backlash. We had to be more flexible, reasonable, diplomatic, and not arrogant and stubborn.
«By contacting CAS, we are on their territory — potentially a loser»
— Skaters Is it hard in Belarus?
— Very. Motivation – zero. There is neither a financial incentive, as there is for Russian figure skaters, nor tournaments where one could compete at a high level. There are a lot of competitions themselves — but these are all “infighting”. We have athletes in each discipline that can be counted on the fingers of one hand — and they compete in all domestic Belarusian tournaments in a row.
We have already lost one of two pairs — Dmitry Bushlanov said that it would be better to earn money in Sochi money than to train for 400 dollars a month — this is a salary in the national team, without knowing why.
— Is it no longer possible to persuade you to hold on?
— In the first year of suspension, I was still able to somehow motivate and promise something. In the second year, there was practically no trust in me. But still, persuasion and promises alone will not pull you through. It’s hard for Russian athletes, despite the fact that their situation is much better. It is very difficult for Belarusian athletes.
— Don’t you think that the same FFKKR is not actively resisting the discriminatory actions of the ISU? There was a joint claim by the Russian Skating Union and the FFKKR to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) for suspension. The hearings were supposed to take place in May 2023, but there is no information about this.
— By contacting CAS, we are playing on their territory. This means that you are potentially a loser. Plus it's expensive. It’s probably impossible not to do this either. But to do it knowing that you will lose money and lose 99%… Just to show that we are not giving up?
— To show the same athletes what their interests are are fighting.
“The fact that we file lawsuits, spend several million dollars, flounder and lose the case will not make it any easier for them.”
“In the international arena, everyone comfortable — why do they need Russians?”
— You worked both in France and in the USA, you have many friends from the world of figure skating. Do you feel any support from them in the situation of withdrawal? In other words, Figure Skating Family – is it a family or not a family anymore?
— Sergei Voronov now works for me in Minsk, he is the senior singles skating coach in the Belarusian national team. Recently he was at one of the stages of the Junior Grand Prix. I asked him — you are a Russian coach, in the recent past a Russian athlete. What does it feel like? He answered: in general, as usual, there are, of course, individuals who greet through clenched teeth, but there are only a few of them. Some say that it’s boring without the Russians and their quadruples, others are happy with the situation. In general, the situation is calm and not hostile.
That is, such that they are waiting for us, or everyone doesn’t want to see us — no. Everyone there — or the majority — is satisfied with the current situation. When we return, they won't kick us. But hard times will begin again for them, when they will have to do quadruple jumps in single skating, some super complex throws and lifts in pair skating… And now everyone is performing calmly, everything has dropped a floor or two lower, and they feel very comfortable . Why do they need Russians?
— Finally, a question about your personal plans. In this whole situation, do you still have the patience to continue building that superstructure that we started this interview with?
— My contract with the Ministry of Sports and Tourism of the Republic of Belarus ends in June 2024. If the Belarusian side offers to extend it on the same terms, I will not refuse. I myself most likely will not insist on an extension. Just as I will not agree to any restrictions or reductions in finances. I am a pensioner, and my options are either to continue doing what I am doing now, or to take my child from home to school and back, that is, to take care of my family, which I now see on weekends, and even then not always. For me, both options are acceptable.
— Do you plan to return to active coaching?
— I think not. I deliberately left her. Now I train, but only for two to four hours a day. The rest of the time I deal with administrative and bureaucratic issues, this gives me some variety in my life. I realized a long time ago that coaching is very hard work. We don’t have many specialists who pull this burden for life. Tamara Nikolaevna Moskvina, Alexey Nikolaevich Mishin, the Velikov clan — this is in St. Petersburg, a number of specialists in Moscow, the Tyukov family in Perm — not so much for a huge country. If I have an alternative opportunity to enjoy life, take care of my beloved wife and children — why not? I would rather choose something that gives me moral pleasure than brings me material benefits.