Figure skating is sometimes called the «beautiful serpentarium» — the tangle of human relations is so intertwined in this sport , which are most often very difficult to call good. However, for many years now, cooperation between Moscow coach Svetlana Sokolovskaya and St. Petersburg specialist Evgeny Rukavitsyn has been an infrequent exception. The correspondent asked them about how their sincere friendship is compatible with explosive characters, the sharpest rivalry between students, and simply with the confrontation between Moscow and St. Petersburg. br>— Do you remember the starting point of your cooperation? maybe twenty years ago, when we, then young coaches, were invited to a seminar held by the federation. Viktor Nikolaevich Kudryavtsev, Zhanna Fedorovna Gromova taught us the mind then. And in our free time, we discussed everything we had learned.Alexei Motorin was training with Zhenya then, and I remember how much I liked his program. And I have Victoria Romanenko, now a very famous actress, by the way. This is if we start from the athletes, because they somehow recently tried to remember the exact year, but it didn’t work out.
— Did the joint work start later?
EP:Joint training camps began to be held when Dima Aliyev and Sasha Samarin appeared. The first one, probably, was decided to be held in 2018. Moreover, the guys, seeing our friendship, became friends by that moment. What brought you together? athletes from our groups. But then, during conversations, it became clear that our worldview is similar. General outlook on life. It was still the foundation. And the question of coaching thinking and attitude to figure skating is already later.
SS:Then, unlike Zhenya, who was a personality in sports, competed, I am a provincial person. I came from Norilsk to Moscow, and it was very difficult for me to find people who would answer my, perhaps stupid questions at that time. I learned to live in the capital. And Zhenya is one of the first people whom I could ask about some nonsense, and he would calmly explain this nonsense to me.
Of course, there was and is Zhanna Gromova — this is a person with whom I could always talk frankly and to this day. This is my first coach, I pray for her and adore her. But this is a coach. And Zhenya became such a person younger than me, whom I would treat as a friend, more simple. Other people helped me, of course, but it was the easiest with him. He accepted me for who I am — with stupidity, with some kind of misunderstanding … And I also accepted him. Around me, girls from the provinces, there were many people who have lived their whole lives in sports, with titles, with a trail of the past. And the freedom of communication that I experienced with Zhenya meant a lot.
ER: We have quick tempers, but nothing bothered us in communication. Now I’m starting to remember and think: after all, it happens when you communicate in a company or with a person, and you’re not just bored, but you have to look for topics for conversation. And Sveta and I never had to look for anything! You could even be silent with pleasure. Time for communication just flew by.By the way, we never advertised our communication. I never even told close people — now, I became friends with Rukavitsyn. Mitten, as I always called him from the first day of communication. Some didn't even know that we knew each other. br>
EP:No never. What else I want to say is that I really love the concept of «harmony», in a deep sense. So, all this was always harmonious. Birthday or just chatting about this and that — sometimes on purpose, sometimes spontaneously, but in the end harmoniously. Sveta likes to say that friendship to some extent is work, but there is no contradiction here. In a sense, this is an alliance of like-minded people, but not an alliance of teams. Svetlana Vladimirovna has her own way, I have mine. Although we had the idea to unite our teams at the official level, unfortunately, we did not succeed, but through no fault of ours.
— Why did it not work out?
EP: Legal issues. Frankly speaking, we do not know the subtleties, but we were told that this is impossible. And we decided to go the way we are.
SS: Although I think it would be interesting.
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Do you have conflicts?
EP:Of course, there may be a discrepancy in mood, because we are people with well-established characters, but either Sveta or I gently and very delicately extinguish the situation. There are situations that are provoked by someone. When you can break firewood — especially given our temper. But I can say for sure: we will not break firewood. If something happens, we will tell each other — let's count to ten. And then the realization will come that you can never rush to conclusions.
SS:We have friction, we have disputes, we have moments of disagreement. But we have a «gray cardinal» (laughs) — Olga Glinka (choreographer of Evgeny Rukavitsyn's group — ed.). And I want to be sure to say this — Olga resolved many situations. We are honest with each other, but there are emotions. And then Olga seated Zhenya separately, me separately — and talked to us.
SS: God forbid! Students come out and compete. No, these are purely working situations. Well, for example, at a joint training camp, he decided to ride at 11 am, and I want to ride at 10 am. And it infuriates me.
«When Samarin lost to Aliev, she «died» for three or four days
— It seems to me that this is too simple a situation to resolve. I'll try to remember more complicated. Aliev (student of Evgeny Rukavitsyn — ed.) and Samarin (student Svetlana Sokolovskaya — ed.) fought for a ticket to the Olympics in 2018. Aliyev went to Pyeongchang, Samarin did not. Did this situation need to be resolved?
SS:What does our friendship and the situation that happened with the guys have to do with it? Yes, Sasha already, consider, tickets for the Olympics were bought, he won against Dima at the Russian Championship, he was higher in the rating of the season. And here it is, the European Championship a month before the Olympics. And Sasha «lies» with me. It happened, psychology. Naturally, I hugged and kissed Zhenya, but then I «died» for three or four days. Extended the hotel room, did not go home. Stupidly lay in the hotel, did not eat, drank only water and that's it. Of course, on the one hand, I understood that Dima won correctly, he did well, I was happy for him. But my grief prevails over my joy. And I realize that Zhenya also mixes these emotions — joy and sorrow. It is difficult, very difficult.
Many have been knocking on my door these days, I did not open the door. But then Sasha Svinin and Ira Zhuk came to me, sat, then Galina Petrovna Golubkova, and then my daughter and granddaughter. And when I saw them, I realized — stop dying, life goes on. Well, that's how it happened, everything is honest.
EP:Of course, on the one hand, I was very happy, but on the other hand, I say this without pathos, I was worried about this. We didn't touch each other for two days. But then we met, hugged the three of us — me, Svetlana Vladimirovna, Olga Germanovna. There were tears, there were some frank words. You know, we coaches are very vulnerable people. On the one hand, they are strong and tough, and on the other, they are sensitive and vulnerable in terms of losses. This is our only Achilles heel.
SS:In this situation, I was very worried about Samarin. I was very worried about him. But I had some intuition. I went to the pre-Olympic meeting, where the Minister of Sports and the leaders of the federation were present. We discussed various issues — departure, arrival, pre-Olympic training camp in Japan … And then suddenly a thought comes to me, and I ask the minister: «Can the substitutes go to the training camp?» He replies: «Yes, of course, why not?»After that, the people who worked next to me, colleagues, not only did not support me, but accused me of unprofessionalism. They said: «You're a fool, why do you need this?» I will not give names and surnames, but it was.
— What was wrong with such a request, I don’t understand?
SS: I don't get it either. Probably, the logic was this: failed and failed, sit in your place. But I saved Sasha, and I didn't care about them. As a result, we went to Japan, stayed at the training camp, and I realized that he would continue to skate.
br>»Found the right words, how to combine friendship and competition»
— In 2022, the opposite situation has developed …
EP:Well, of course, not quite — tickets to Beijing were not bought for Aliyev, of course. But Mark Kondratyuk was a dark horse at the beginning of the Olympic season, he could not be called a favorite. But we survived this too. And all because they agreed on certain rules on the shore. Naturally, it would be foolish to say now that I was rooting for Kondratyuk, and not for Aliev — and vice versa, Sveta will not say that she was for Dima, and not for Mark. But we found the right words in relation to each other, how to live with it all. I will not, of course, voice them. But such words were found.
— It's cool to rise above such situations.
EP:And we found these words, looking into each other's eyes. This is not a memorandum written on paper, but human words about how in this difficult and surprising situation for many — on the one hand, tandem, on the other — competition — we act.
— This surprises many, it seems to me, for the reason that everyone knows firsthand about squabbles in figure skating — they regularly get out into public space. And then suddenly friendship, such an exception.Let's make it clearer. What did they teach us in school? What is good and what is bad. What are we doing with Svetlana Vladimirovna unusual? Are we honest about life?
— Then the question is — why do you need to unite at the same training camp, why go to each other?
EP:Each of us, from all the specialists in our groups, has strengths. For example, at a joint training camp in Kislovodsk, two gliding coaches and two physical training coaches worked. We tell athletes — take the maximum from everyone. Whoever takes more will advance higher. Naturally, in training, the guys look at each other, in a good way they get turned on. And we all see it and rejoice. First, progress will be in training, then in competitions.
SS:What is also very important — we have absolutely no jealousy. Zhenya in relation to his students, and I — to my own. For example, I can keep secrets with Aliev, with Nastya Gubanova, with Makar Ignatov, with small children. In training, it happens like this — Rukavitsyn is standing, Molotov is standing, Glinka is standing, and their student drives up to me and asks: «Look at my cascade.» And that's okay! I can tell my people — there are no forces anymore, go to Mitten, he will explain everything to you. I look — he talks, inspires.
— And if, conditionally, Samarin himself wants to talk with Evgeny Vladimirovich?
SS: Yes, it happened many times. For some reason, many of us believe that if the coach talked to another athlete, then the athlete will run away to him. I want to say: firstly, you ask yourself the question — not why do they run to someone, but why do they leave you? And secondly, well, look — my athletes have secrets with Zhenya, and his athletes have secrets with me. All my guys have Evgeny Vladimirovich's phone number, and vice versa. And no one runs to anyone! We have trust, and we keep on it.
—Don't consider such a question as a provocation — but if, again conditionally, Aliev says tomorrow: «I want to go to Sokolovskaya», what will happen?
br>SS: Excluded. This will not happen, as far as we know. Of course, one cannot promise, but so far there have been no such hints. But if the guys tell me: «Svetlana Vladimirovna, let's go to St. Petersburg, get excited,» I will immediately say: «Forward!» We’ll immediately set off, shove everyone in — someone lives with Zhenya, someone with Olga Germanovna, someone with Dima Aliev. It is easier for me to come to St. Petersburg with a group from an organizational point of view. But if it were easier, Zhenya's group would come to us in the same way, and we would receive them in the same way: someone would live with me, someone with Samarin …
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EP:And I'll tell you — how many times I told the guys: a group of Svetlana Vladimirovna is coming to us, immediately the answer is instant: «Yes? Great!» Never half a second of hesitation. And in the pre-Olympic season, Aliev came to Svetlana Vladimirovna and lived with her when he was treating an injury. And I rode in CSKA.
— It's clear with training. Are there situations when at tournaments you make comments or tips to each other's students?
CC:In official training — not a question at all. Zhenya saw something at Kondratyuk's, prompted. We will gladly accept. When there is a start — this is simply not accepted. He is with his athletes, I am with mine. Six minutes, start — and it would not occur to me to interfere. We'll pass by, nod to each other.
— Were there sidelong glances from colleagues when Aliev came to Moscow or Kondratyuk to St. Petersburg? There are other coaches, someone could say — what is our competitor doing here?
SS:These are their views, why pay attention to them? I don't even want to think about it. Well, to my great regret, in CSKA I try not to communicate with anyone. I have ice on a schedule, I have a gym — my team and I came, worked and left. I'm so comfortable. And who thinks what…
ER: We didn't have that. On the contrary, I remember such a case — Artur Minchuk somehow calls and says: «I saw Svetlana Vladimirovna at your place — come to visit me!» We arrived, had a great time.
And I want to emphasize: we are not isolated in our friendship. We communicate well with many other coaches. With Evgeny Plushenko, who helped us a lot. With Ilya Averbukh, who also supports us. With Tamara Nikolaevna Moskvina, whom we love very much. During the Olympics, I regularly called her up about a variety of issues — and all the time I received very accurate and wise answers. With Tatyana Anatolyevna Tarasova, who gave many valuable recommendations.
SS:Tamara Nikolaevna also helped me a lot. Once there was a problematic situation — «set» my head in 15 minutes. Alexei Nikolayevich Mishin is a legend in general. For example, he is very supportive of Sasha Samarin, constantly inviting him to his shows. Some whisper in his ear — yes, it's time for Samarin to finish, but he still supports. Wisely? Wisely. Sasha himself will decide what to do. But when we are supported by such people, he grows stronger, and I grow stronger. And everything else fades into the background.
I will also mention here Elena Anatolyevna Tchaikovskaya, Viktor Nikolaevich Kudryavtsev. By virtue of their experience, they are very smart, and Zhenya and I still have to learn and learn from them. For me, these people are authorities who, having not communicated closely with me, were able to show the very right paths in this sporting life. And, of course, my Zhanna Fyodorovna Gromova helped me a lot.
ER:I can only join. How, I remember, Valentin Nikolayevich Piseev once blew me away after one of the tournaments — but he immediately said: «Tomorrow to Kudryavtsev.» And in the end I was happy that I had a chance to spend some time side by side with Viktor Nikolayevich. Well, I would simply call communication with Igor Borisovich Moskvin an inoculation in big-time sports. It is a great honor for us not just to talk to them, but to hear and accept their opinion. If not for them, our life could have been completely different. We are very lucky that there is such continuity in Russia.- Aliyev and Samarin have said many times that they are friends. Do you think it came from you?
EP:We think yes, they became friends looking at us. And I can give many examples on this topic. If someone has a birthday at the meeting, everyone sits at one common table, communicates, makes toasts, and all this happens very harmoniously, adequately and decently. We have groups of children, and all of them are motley. We look, today two of my students, three Sveta, went for a walk together. Tomorrow is the opposite. And we are very happy about it. Coaches in our teams also communicate, we see how they discuss the selection of music, some other points. And this is already happening without our knowledge. And this is also continuity!
SS: There were cases when someone left our team. I say exactly that — «our». But that's okay too. They are good people, it just didn't work out. And our people stayed with us.
— Svetlana Vladimirovna, when the star athlete, Sasha Trusova, came to you, did you have to explain to her that there were not competitors nearby, but friends?
SS: Sasha figured it out myself. As Arthur Danielyan and Anya Frolova understood this, they went over to Zhenya. We don't explain anything to them — they see everything themselves.
ER: Besides, they themselves have heard a lot about our atmosphere to some extent. Therefore, including, and are drawn to us. It seems to us that they adapt very quickly.
strong>— But psychologists and coaches often teach athletes to hate rivals.
EP: It's against nature. And we will never do that. This is completely without false pathos, and this is really not about us.
Does the leadership of the federation approve of your union?
SS: They help us, and I sincerely want to thank for everything that the leaders do — Anton Sikharulidze, Alexander Ilyich Kogan. And our athletes see this help, and, for example, Mark Kondratyuk told me: «I can't quit my favorite thing even in this situation, seeing how they support us.»
ER: What to hide, now is a very difficult time, it is impossible to replace international tournaments in an absolutely balanced way. But what we have is just great. This is a perfect season. And for this we want to say thank you to everyone who is involved in this.